Sunday, November 27, 2022

Anti-fascists expose Aveley councillor as former National Front candidate

ANTI-FASCIST campaigners have discovered that the UKIP councillor for Aveley, Robert Ray once stood as a National Front (NF) candidate in the seventies.

Hope Not Hate (HNH) discovered that Robert stood for the far-right party in the London borough of Newham in 1977.

This was a time when the NF were on a crest of a wave. There was also a plethora of political rallies and clashes in the London area.

HNH claim to have spoken to Robert who, according to them, “Confirmed that he was in the National Front and that he was the Newham organiser for the far right party. He also confirmed that he stood in elections on at least one occasion for the NF.”

Cllr Ray was elected in May 2011 and has gone on to be one of the hardest working councillors in the borough.

Whether he will remain in the party, remains to be seen.

Earlier this year, it emerged that a candidate had been thrown out of the party when it was discovered that she used to be a BNP member. Susan Bowen, a retired sheep farmer from Boscastle in north Cornwall, had been selected to stand in the Tintagel ward on 2 May.

Cllr Ray did attempt to respond to a YT inquiry but (no pun intended) hung up once he discovered that the editor was in Europe.

45 COMMENTS

  1. Whilst I do not condone what the National Front stood for they were a legitimate political party just like the main parties, this was over 30years ago, blimey the HNH are really scraping the barrel with this story, people change over time and their political beliefs change, how many candidates have jumped ship to between different parties but this fails to get a mention.

    As stated in the item he is one of the hardest working councillors in the borough so why bring up something that was so long ago, as the old Christian saying goes, ” He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone”

  2. And the point ot this story is what? We have a man who works hard for the people that voted for him. On the other hand we have a marxist hater of this country, supported by the leader of the council, that does nothing for his constituents but claims the financial rewards. One lady in his area is fighting an anti mould campaign on her own. So who are the bad people? The nazi’s on the left or the people that care about their country?

  3. Gosh, what someone did in the 70s comes back to haunt them and people are surprised. Google Yewtree, its happening all the time. Whilst clearly this is not as bad as the alleged crimes of many a celebrity, it absolutely IS relevant as Cllr Ray is a public figure. The key question is, would Cllr Ray still like to deport both Cllr Kiely and Deidre Lodge?

  4. It’s a sad world when people are not allowed to grow up, mature and develop as a human being. So what if Cllr Ray was in the BNP in the seventies? That was a very long time ago and I am sure that his worldview is very different now to what it was then. It sounds like he works hard for his ward, unlike a certain Labour Cllr so, unless some evidence of wrongdoing or criminality comes into play, leave the man alone.

  5. We read him the contents of his election leaflet and he told us that he still stood by everything that was written, claiming that immigrants still established ghetto areas in this country

    Grey 64 ,
    as you can see he hasn’t changed he’s mind since the 70’s and I suggest you read the story on Hope not Hate Facebook page where it clearly states he’s not changed he’s views since he run for the NF Party. I look forward to Robert Ray voting with he’s Conservative Race hatred members of Thurrock.

  6. No voice I wouldn’t even waste my time talking to a racialist idiot of your calibre, but if your suggesting that Robert Ray the Nazi can be defended your just as much of idiot as him. Perhaps him and Mark Cockshaw would have a lot to talk about. How about that , Nazis and race haters all rolled in to one at Thurrock council.

  7. Leave this guy alone. So what if he joined the NF back in the 70s. He now sits as a UKIP councillor as far as I’m aware he represents Aveley village well. He also hasn’t offended anybody, hasn’t had any random racist outbursts and seems a pretty honest man.

    No one cares.

  8. I’m not sure what a raicialist is concerned resident. The Nazi’s were a socialist party that were more or less credited for their propoganda. isn’t that ironic concerned resident. How concerned are you that you can be swayed by a political propoganda argument that lost it’s way when the Labour party admitted they were lying. do you still back a lie?

  9. Concerned resident, I too am not sure what a racialist is, I assume you meant racist?
    Calling somebody a Nazi because he has views different to yours and which may be valid demonstrates a lack of understanding on your part. The Nazi’s were, as NoVoice pointed out to you, a socialist party and nothing like the Conservatives you now call Racists.

    In fact, I am not sure why I even bother to address posts like yours, all you want to do it slag people off and try to shut down any debate on issues regarding race. In case you hadn’t noticed, those days are over, the debate is being had and about time too.

  10. Just a quick point – the Nazis were a right-wing NATIONALIST party, they weren’t Socialist although they did refer to themselves as such. Socialists are politically left-wing so the Nazis couldn’t have been Socialist because their Nationalist agenda and Socialism are contradictory political standpoints. It’s like saying that the BNP have Socialist ideals or former Russian-style Communists were supporters of unrestrained Capitalism.

  11. Oh my one does have to wonder how many of the above are Tories???
    Still perhaps this story will deflect the attention from Cllr cochshall. A dear friend of Cllr Ray ?

  12. Descamisados, I have had a little chuckle over your comment, they are going to have to be quick if this was the case, I have posted the E Mail I sent to the Director of housing appealing for help, am I now to believe from Concerned resident and Gray64 that I am also up against racist attitudes from both parties. I might as well give up the hope that someone cares.
    Hello Barbara
    Its been some time since I have seen or spoken to you, but I do hope all is well with you.
    I am not sure if you are aware that on June 23rd Jeff Charlton and myself had a meeting with Katherine to discuss the two survey’s that had been done on my home in March (Potter Raper) and Mr Charltons survey. Mr Charlton did explain to Katherine that the mould in my bedroom ceiling although not visible to the eye is still posing a serious threat to my Health (Toxins) which he has put in his report for Katherine. It has been some time since that meeting and sadly although I have waited patiently the works that need to be done seems to have been ignored. I have every respect for Katherine but wonder if she is not understanding the concept that mould and toxins in any shape or form has on my health and will need to be done before the winter if I am to have any chance of being free of Hosp and District nurses this year. Jeff Charlton and Mr Francis Astmatt have advised the reason for the mould in my bedroom ceiling is due to lack of ventilation in the loft. Mr Charlton has advised in a separate document how this can be done.
    I have just recently seen my Lung Consultant and he has advised my Aspergillus levels are dangerously high, over 2000, I hope Barbara you will understand that there can be no respite for me whilst I am still living with Toxins in the home, and as you know there is no cure for me.

    I would be grateful Barbara if you could look into this for me.

  13. Thanks NoVoice for your vote.
    I would like to point out to those councillors with a Racist view that I was born in London in 1954 my father was a merchant seaman during WW11, sadly he died whilst I was very young, My mother was white and from Kent but also died, so I spent my whole childhood in St Leonards childrens home in Hornchurch, I was christened C/E. If the BNP or those of that mindset had the choice, I wonder where I would be sent back to.

  14. I’m confused. The anti fascist movement is attempting to out someone for their political beliefs 40 years ago. In the same breath they try to convince people they are not fascists. How more fascist can you get. You’ve got to love the left. Hypocritical to the core. Liars, the Labour party now disown mass immigration. It was nothing to do with them. The fascist Nazi’s on the left believe that calling someone a racist somehow diminishes an argument. How pious can you get, and they hate religion. The new religion to the left is the downfall of society that has seen this country prosper. Call me a rascist, I don’t care. I’d rather be that than a person that hates the country they live in and will do their utmost to destroy it. Traitors, one and all. So now lets get extremist you Nazi’s.

  15. NoVoice – And I take it the Tories always tell the truth and don’t have a hypocritical bone in their bodies? Exactly what world do you live in?

    You also mentioned “fascist Nazi’s on the left”; not to be too technical but Nazis are right-wing so there can’t be any on the left. What I think you meant to say was “left-wing extremists” which is the proper term.

    Other than that, your rant is as right-wing as we come to expect from you so, as long as you use the proper terminology, carry on making a complete fool of yourself because it’s great entertainment for the rest of us.

  16. Valen (Myles) Cook
    I do not know why bother to explain to a mental retard like NoVoice

    Keep up the good work Mr Cook

  17. Valen Myles Cook, when I look half as ridiculous as some of the people on here that defend a group trying to out a person as a racist because of his political views 40 years ago I’ll let you know. I notice that there was no spokepserson for the group willing to give their name. Very brave of them.

    The term national socialism is the term you’re looking for, spot the defining word. Do you think that the other great socialists of the time like Stalin didn’t persecute and murder ethnic minorities.

    The witchfinders of the left appear to believe that people that don’t agree with them are all extremists that want to murder people. Is that what you believe, everyone that disagree’s with the views of people like yourself and the ever so clever concerned resident is a potential mass murderer.

    UKIP have a conference and the desperate witch hunters on the left are targeting them, they’ve even accused Nigel Farage of beiong a racist and fascist today because of things he may or may not have said when he was a schoolboy.

    I want to know who died and made the left judge, jury and executioner. And you come to me and tell me I’m a fascist. Take a good look at the actions of the left and have a think about who it is that has run one of the most virile propoganda campaigns against anyone that doesn’t agree with them. They even try to indoctrinate primary school children. How very Goebbels.

    I take the abuse from people like you every time I comment on here about anything remotely related to immigration. I’m not in the minority in the way I feel about it, the witchfinders are. When will you be holding the next public burning.

  18. There is a great deal of truth in what NoVoice has said here and it is wrong to dismiss a viewpoint just because it differs from your own.

    For an organisation to dig up rubbish like this on a councillor is nothing more than bullying. If Cllr Ray was a member of the Labour party he would not have been ‘outed’ for his past political views. Sadly groups like HNH use hate and spitful tactics against people or groups they disagree with and are far from a peaceful organisation.

    As for the Nazi debate, the fact they were called National Socialists show that there was clearly a socialist element to their politics. The similarities with Nazi Germany and Stalin’s Russia were notable. The Nazis controlled everything in a similar way to state control by communists, and to a lesser extent, socialist parties like Labour. The Nazis were keen to keep people ‘in their place’, again just like communists and similar to the politics of the Labour party. Hitler was hardly a fan of capitalism, persecuted those with political beliefs different from himself and made a fair amount of money in the process….again similar to many socialist/communist leaders around the world. Hitler was also a protectionist, wanting a bigger stronger, pure Germany which is generally another far left ideal. Labour in the 70s and 1980s hated the European Community – they preferred a closed Britain and subsidised businesses. We can all see they have changed their mind now by the hundreds of different languages we hear about town now.

    The only ‘right wing’ part of the Nazis was their patriotism, or you could say their extreme xenophobia/racism, hence the ‘National’ part in the party name. In many ways their stance can be mildly compared to the views of the BNP today, extremely nationalistic but very socialist in terms of economics/world view etc and it is well known that the people most likely to vote for them are the white working classes who used to vote Labour.

  19. There was very little difference in the policies of the Nazi’s or the communists during the second world was. Both were fanatical nationalists and dealt with ethnic minorities in very much the same way. But becasue some people believe the communists were left wing, that makes them cuddly and nice.

  20. NoVoice – Let’s take your points one at a time shall we?

    “…when I look half as ridiculous as some of the people on here that defend a group trying to out a person as a racist because of his political views 40 years ago I’ll let you know.” – You already do look more ridiculous but for a totally different reason.

    “I notice that there was no spokepserson for the group willing to give their name. Very brave of them.” – I take it that means that your real full name is ‘NoVoice’, is it? If not, you can hardly condemn someone else for not using their real name either. Frankly, I don’t care for people raking up someone’s past thoughts and assigning them to their current personality because everyone does things in their younger days that they probably regret later in life – I once bought a single by Queen – but condemning them for not using their real name when you don’t smacks of pot-kettle-black syndrome.

    “The term national socialism is the term you’re looking for, spot the defining word. Do you think that the other great socialists of the time like Stalin didn’t persecute and murder ethnic minorities.” – Actually, National is the defining part in the term ‘National Socialist’ (not Socialism). The Nazis were a Nationalist Party that had very little to do with Socialism. Yes, they had State-controlled industry, etc but that was more to do with Hitler being a Fascist dictator who wanted to control every aspect of people’s lives. Nazi Germany was not Socialist because there was no adherence to the Socialist ideal of common ownership. I could, if I wished start a party called the United Kingdom Nationalist Party (a right-wing sounding name) but run it on Socialist ideals so adding ‘Socialist’ to the name of his party meant nothing but obviously sounded better than Nationalist Fascist Dictator Party which is just a mouthful. As for what Stalin did or did not do, it has no relevance to the subject of the definition of National Socialist so what’s the point in bringing him up? I am also not supporting or ignoring the evil things Stalin did, I just don’t see the relevance to this discussion.

    I used the term ‘extremist’ where you used the term “fascist Nazi’s on the left”. My term is the correct one as ‘Fascist’ and ‘Nazi’ are the terms to right-wing ideologies, whereas ‘extremist’ is a generic term for someone with extreme views whether they be left-wing views or right-wing views. All you need to do is read a dictionary definition and a book on political ideologies to see that I’m right. Just because I say that ‘Fascist’ and ‘Nazi’ are terms relating to the right-wing politics does not mean I apply them to you if that is where you got the idea that I called you a Fascist but it does give me the right to call you a moron now.

    To sum up, I refer you to my initial posting – “Just a quick point – the Nazis were a right-wing NATIONALIST party, they weren’t Socialist although they did refer to themselves as such. Socialists are politically left-wing so the Nazis couldn’t have been Socialist because their Nationalist agenda and Socialism are contradictory political standpoints. It’s like saying that the BNP have Socialist ideals or former Russian-style Communists were supporters of unrestrained Capitalism.”

    “Is that what you believe, everyone that disagree’s with the views of people like yourself and the ever so clever concerned resident is a potential mass murderer.” – I never said that at any point so where you get that idea from is your own twisted diseased mind.

    What the left-wingers do in their spare time at UKIP conferences doesn’t concern me as that is not the issue we are discussing. In fact, most of this isn’t what I wanted to contribute because I just wanted to set a couple of issues straight concerning language but that’s what happens when you try to smooth out the wrinkles in an argument, you get dragged into stuff like this.

    “And you come to me and tell me I’m a fascist.” – Exactly when did I call you a fascist? Er, never. But thank you for libeling me on this website, a public forum. Will you retract the statement or shall I get in touch with a lawyer?

    “Take a good look at the actions of the left and have a think about who it is that has run one of the most virile propoganda campaigns against anyone that doesn’t agree with them.” – Now, please tell me who has attacked the BBC and the left leaning media for their use of the term ‘Bedroom Tax’. Er, could it possibly be the Tories? And why did they attack those media outlets? Could it be because they don’t agree with their policy being called the ‘Bedroom Tax’? And who has waged a vile propaganda war against the poor, the sick and the disabled to demonise them to push through disgusting policies with public approval? Er, could that be the Tories again? Who is in the process of trying to push through a Gagging Bill to stop people who don’t agree with their policies from openly discussing them? Er, Tories again, I’m afraid.

    “I take the abuse from people like you every time I comment on here about anything remotely related to immigration. I’m not in the minority in the way I feel about it, the witchfinders are. When will you be holding the next public burning.” – I have no abused you about commenting on immigration so where did that come from? And as for the next public burning, I think the Tories are holding a public book burning in a couple of months time to get rid of the literature that shows them for what they are.

    “But becasue some people believe the communists were left wing, that makes them cuddly and nice.” – Only a fool thinks that of the so-called Communists of Russia who started out with Socialist ideals but ideals that became corrupted by Lenin and Stalin who tried to force the wrong type of country into a cycle of revolution to create a Communist State. The corruption of the method led to a corrupt version of Communism that Marx would never have agreed with.

    One final point – you keep bringing up immigration as the cause of all the UK’s woes and that makes you sound like a xenophobic looper, in my humble opinion. YOU ignore the banking crisis that plunged the world into recession. YOU ignore the current Government’s utter contempt for the poor, the sick and the disabled whilst the rich prosper. YOU ignore the hate-mongering and demonisation of a large section of the population by this Government. I, on the other hand, accept that previous administrations made mistakes and have never said otherwise. I attacked the previous Government for many of their decisions, I just didn’t have the outlet to make my views widely known. I see that there are some points of Conservatism as an ideology that are good and worth keeping but I am, at all times, open-minded as to what I believe in. I have a social conscience. I believe in social justice. I know, in my heart, that the ideals I hold are worth fighting for and that they are for the betterment of all. I will fight against any threat to the common good which is why I tend to be seen as a left-winger because a lot of the policies being played out in this country are wrong and detrimental to the common good. We will forever disagree on politics because you are close-minded but that’s fine; this is a free country, for the moment at least, and you can believe whatever you want but, for Heaven’s sake, use the right terminology before you spout your mouth off.

  21. Bernard87 – There are a lot of errors in what NoVoice has to say and there usually is, however, I am not dismissing his views because I disagree with them, merely pointing out the factual inaccuracy in some of his statements.

    I agree that digging up old dirt like this is totally wrong because, as I said in my reply to NoVoice, everyone does things in their younger days that they would not agree with now. I prefer to judge people on their current actions.

    You said that “The Nazis were keen to keep people ‘in their place’, again just like communists”; actually, if you look at the underlying political ideologies, keeping people ‘in their place’ is, in fact, more of a right-wing position or the position taken by a dictator of any ideological standpoint. Therefore, assigning Socialist values to the Nazis is erroneous.

    You also said “Hitler was also a protectionist, wanting a bigger stronger, pure Germany which is generally another far left ideal”; actually he wanted a strong nation which is a Nationalist ideal and that’s a right-wing one not a left-wing ideal. A far left ideal would be a State-less State which has no need for politicians because everyone works for the betterment and protection of all. As Karl Marx originally envisioned a Communist State, the State would wither away as unneeded.

    Again I disagree with most of your last paragraph although the use of the term ‘extreme xenophobia/racism’ is an apt one and could well be assigned to our current Government with their despicable xenophobic hate-mongering vans that were piloted earlier this year.

  22. Lets look at what the editor has write here
    36 years ago Cllr Ray stood in a London borough of Newham for the far right party the NF (National Front).
    Does it really matter if he stood for them all those years ago? NO, because he may have changed his opinion/perception and has agreed to reform to the UKIP policies, so to make a scapegoat of him now when he isn’t even up for election is abit wrong in my view they should have done this in 2011 when he was elected.

    Secondly the editor writes – Cllr Ray was elected in May 2011 and has gone on to be one of the hardest working councillors in the borough.

    As he seems to be in the editors words one of the hardest working Councillors that shows that he has passion and isn’t just taking our council tax charges for old rope like many other Councillors in this authority do.

    I say firstly give him some slack many people in office and out of office change there views on policies and personalities and jump to another party so maybe Cllr Ray has too. – Not that this has been confirmed!
    Valen myles cook – good luck on your libel case!

  23. Valen Myles Cook I am not in a position where I have to give my real name but my name is Paul; I’m about 6ft 2, bald and weigh about 16 1/2 stone. I mainly drink in the Oaks in Grays if anyone is interested. Perhaps now you can out all the other brave people on here who clearly have very close links with the council or councillors.

    I’m not going to debate history with you. The political spectrum is a circle where political parties can travel in opposite directions on that circle but, there will always be a point where political ideologies meet and the means used to achieve their goals meet or even cross over. North Korea and Zimbabwe are current day examples of that.

    The relevance in politics is that the left have feted vile evil dictators on the one hand, because they were doing it for the good of the people according to them, but have held out others to be the devil incarnate. That doesn’t mean that I support the Nazi’s any more than I support Stalin, Chairman Mao, or the current left wing North Korean regime. They don’t deal a straight hand. They don’t call a spade a spade.

    If you think you can prove libel, be my guest. Personally I think you have zero chance.

    With regard to the so called bedroom tax, that is a name given to it by the Labour Party. Perhaps the Labour party should stop being so hypocritical and reverse their own policy of imposing exactly the same policy on people who have to rent in the private sector because they are not lucky enough to be given a council house.

    With regard to gagging and running nasty campaigns, the NHS under Labour. The Labour party itself against their own ministers and MP’s. The campaign that has made anyone that doesn’t agree with mass immigration a racist. The left are the biggest control freaks ever known in the recent history of politics in this country.

    The collapse of the banking system was brought about by greedy politicians and individual bankers. Take a look at who set up the subprime mortgage guarantee system in the USA. Yet it was extended by Bush but he wasn’t the instigator. What political party in this country encouraged banks to lend to people that couldn’t afford it.

    Banking collapse puts pressure on the availability of credit. It has had nothing to do with the amount of housing built in this country under Labour or conservative governments. The only time under Labour where there was any change in the amount of house building carried out was in the boom years created by Labour.

    Mass immigration has created a housing crisis in this country and continues to do so. Mass immigration has created a chronic shortage of school places. Mass immigration has created strain on the NHS. The NHS budget has increased every year under the current government. The problem being it doesn’t increase in line with population increase.

    The short of this story is that the left launched a witch hunt, as they always do. Their out a racist campaign continues unabated because of their belief that everyone should accept mass immigration, a policy they are so proud of, they never put it in their manifesto, ever, and have denied and disowned it ever since. It is they that have made race the issue of the last 10 years. Their policy has failed. The tax base has contracted and not expanded as their failed economic policy believed would happen. The tens of billions of additional government spending designed to accommodate their policy has failed. We now support hundreds of thousands of immigrants totally reliant on benefits. It is a failure of the lefts making but they cannot accept responsibility for it or even accept that it is a failure.

  24. Valen Myles Cook, you also stand by the assumption taht it is only those on the left that has a social conscience. I don’t class bankrupting a country and trapping people on benefits as a social conscience, I call that a cynical ploy to win votes. The Labour Party have done more harm to the poor in this country than the current government. If the Labour party had concentrated on using welfare as a safety net for those in need rather than a tool to manipulate the economy and the political situation to their advantage, maybe we wouldn’t be in the situation where sweeping, one size fits all cuts have to be made to that system.

  25. NoVoice – “I am not in a position where I have to give my real name” – Very true but then neither does anyone else yet you condemn them for not using theirs. Apart from Mr Perrin and myself, I don’t think anyone else does use their full name so it should be only us who can condemn people for voicing opinions anonymously under ridiculous screen names. And giving only your first name doesn’t really count because a first name is almost as anonymous as a screen name if not accompanied with a surname. I’m not criticizing your cowardice, just pointing it out.

    I do agree with you that everyone should voice their comments using their name otherwise they are as cowardly as you are.

    “I’m not going to debate history with you.” – Actually, I thought you already had been debating history as you keep bringing up the last Government’s record on immigration which is technically history. You also brought up Stalin and now Chairman Mao – both historical figures, I believe. You seem to wish to take one position and then take another. Can’t you make up your mind and stick to it?

    “The political spectrum is a circle” – Actually, there are three accepted political spectrum models and none of them is a circle. They are the Linear, the Horseshoe and the Two-dimensional spectrums. The Horseshoe is the closest to a circle but the two extreme ends don’t meet.

    “The relevance in politics is that the left have feted vile evil dictators on the one hand, because they were doing it for the good of the people according to them” – I take it that this refers to my point that an earlier point you raised on Stalin and left-wing dictators was irrelevant to the current discussion and, actually, it was but seeing as how you wish to labour the point. No one suggested that there have not been left-wing dictators in the past or in the current day but the relevant word here is ‘dictator’, a dictator is someone who will use any means to gain and retain control. Some may suggest that ‘dictator’ does not fit on the political spectrum at all because, whatever justification they use, their main goal is power for themselves and bugger the rest of the population. Some might also suggest that all politicians of this day and age are to some degree dictatorial in their mindset; this certainly comes out most strongly in the main party leaders – Cameron, Miliband, Clegg and, if we are to consider historical figures too, Blair and Thatcher. This is not to say that any of the aforementioned people are dictators but that exhibit dictatorial mindset characteristics. Thatcher, Cameron and Blair have all forced their will against the population regardless of public opinion, a public, I may add, that they are supposed to serve as well as guide.

    “If you think you can prove libel, be my guest. Personally I think you have zero chance.” – I could and would win a small settlement but I’m not going to because you’re not worth my time.

    “Perhaps the Labour party should stop being so hypocritical and reverse their own policy of imposing exactly the same policy on people who have to rent in the private sector because they are not lucky enough to be given a council house.” – The term ‘Bedroom Tax’ may have been thought up by the Left but it is a much more precise definition than ‘Spare Room Subsidy’. A subsidy is a payment whilst this policy is, in fact, a reduction or charge. I’m not a fan of the term ‘Bedroom Tax’ but I don’t agree with the term ‘Spare Room Subsidy’. When the Tories decide to call the policy what it is, I’ll start using that term. I suggest ‘Spare Room Charge’, ‘Spare Room Penalty’ or ‘Spare Room Reduction’; all of these terms are more accurate and do not hide the fact that it is a negative policy under the guise of a positive sounding name as ‘Spare Room Subsidy’.

    As for the fact that Labour brought in living space restrictions for people in private sector rented accommodation, that was a measure to save a considerable amount of money because private sector rent charges are actually much higher than those in the social housing sector and, by the way, I would say that regardless of who brought that restriction in. Who would you rather the extra expense go to – rich landlords or back into the public coffers to be spent elsewhere? People in social housing are not there because they want to be but because they have no other choice. Those who can and wish to downsize should be encouraged to do so but to force people to move is wrong.

    The lack of social housing is the fault of successive Governments, both Tory and Labour, for not replacing the housing stock sold off under the Right-To-Buy. RTB is not a bad idea per se but, without the replacement of social housing stock, all it does is drive up housing prices so that those who wish to become homeowners cannot get a foot on the housing ladder and there are not social housing properties available to house them pushing them towards unscrupulous private sector landlords who make a killing.

    “The left are the biggest control freaks ever known in the recent history of politics in this country.” – You have obviously not been following the news recently then or you choose to turn a blind eye to the massive abuse of power and restrictive policies of the current Tory Government. Why does that not surprise me?

    “The collapse of the banking system was brought about by greedy politicians and individual bankers.” – I’m glad you were paying attention. You also acknowledge that it was started in the US – very well done.

    “What political party in this country encouraged banks to lend to people that couldn’t afford it.” – First of all, you asked a question so where was the question mark? Secondly, technically, every Government since Thatcher’s has encouraged the use of credit and loans so trying to make me say ‘Labour’ on this matter is totally pointless. Thatcher started the credit culture during the Yuppie Years and each successive Government has perpetuated the culture. Personally, I don’t like credit or bank loans although I have used both but only for one thing at a time and well within my ability to repay the payments.

    “Banking collapse puts pressure on the availability of credit.” – If it wasn’t for the credit culture, there would not have been such a huge crash in the first place. People would live within their means which doesn’t preclude the use of credit and bank loans but merely keeps it within manageable levels. Of course, if a proper Living Wage was set by whatever Government is in power at the time, people would have more money and be able to live at a higher standard without the need for as much credit.

    “It has had nothing to do with the amount of housing built in this country under Labour or conservative governments.” – I never said that the banking collapse had anything to do with housing. Please do pay attention!

    “The NHS budget has increased every year under the current government.” – Actually, it has been reported and confirmed by official figures that, although the amount of money has been increased in the budget, the real-terms effect is that of a decrease in funding. I work with organisations that have a lot of dealings with the NHS and all I hear about on a regular basis is ‘NHS cuts’.

    You keep mentioning immigration as the cause of all of the UK’s woes. I keep saying each time you bring it up that I don’t discuss immigration because it can inflame racial/cultural hatred and I don’t want to be a part of that. You counter with ‘that’s because you’re a Leftie; Lefties always use that as an argument to ignore immigration as a subject and because it’s Labour’s fault we have so much immigration’ – you don’t put it as eloquently as I just did but feel free to cut-and-paste it for next time. I point out that I don’t support any political party or position. You call me a ‘Leftie’ again because you have no other argument other than to call people ‘Lefties’ when they do not wish to give xenophobic loopers a chance to peddle racial/cultural hatred. There I’ve now covered our entire debate on immigration so you don’t need to mention it ever again in any replies to me. Thank you.

    One final point on racism though – the current Government piloted a scheme in which a number of trucks toured the streets with an extremely racist placard on the side. It kind of suggests to me that the current Government are racists.

    “…you also stand by the assumption taht it is only those on the left that has a social conscience.” – No, I never said that. What I have said in the past is that most people with a social conscience are left-leaning. There is a Tory councillor in the north of the country who showed a great deal of social conscience when she resigned as a Tory in disgust at the ‘Bedroom Tax’ and Anthony Worrall Thompson, a staunch Tory supporter, showed a similar disgust at that policy. I have never said that only the Left have a social conscience, I just haven’t met many on the Right who demonstrate having one.

    “The Labour Party have done more harm to the poor in this country than the current government.” – Actually, child poverty has increased during this Tory-led Government when it had been falling to record lows under Labour. In fact, many forms of poverty have risen under the current Government. Labour did not assist in the suicides and early deaths of the most vulnerable members of the population (10,600 was the figure banded around quite a bit but that must have increased by now), the current Government has. Homelessness is rising under the current Government. Rent arrears are rising under this Government. Unemployment rose under this Government and continues to do so due to the Workfare scheme which encourages retailers to get rid of paid staff in favour of getting Workfare slaves for free thus increasing their profits – please don’t tell me it doesn’t happen because only yesterday I heard of a woman in the Basildon area who was made redundant from the local branch of her large chain supermarket only to find her job had been filled by a Workfare slave. That woman now has only just over £30 a week to provide for herself and her invalid husband and that’s after pooling their combined benefit payments!

    As for the rest of your comment, I have never said that cuts aren’t needed. I have said that the Government is cutting in the wrong place and should be looking at tightening up the legal loopholes that allow rich people to avoid tax. I have never said that welfare reform isn’t needed. I have said that the Government is reforming in the wrong place. I have never said that there aren’t people out there who play the system and leech off of the public coffers, there clearly are. I have said, however, and tried to point this out many times that those types of people are in a minority – less that 1% according to the Government’s own figures – and that the reforms are not catching the fraudsters and layabouts; they are harming the most vulnerable though. This Government closed down Remploy sites that gave disabled people a chance at having a job, an income, some self-respect and the chance to pay into the public coffers. Those people are now unemployed, on benefits, self-loathing and taking from the public coffers. Where’s the sense in that? This Government’s Workfare scheme is taking people out of work who were paying into the public coffers (even if that was only in the form of National Insurance payments due to the low-paid nature of their employment) and putting them on benefits to be replaced in their former jobs by people who aren’t contributing anything to the public coffers. Where’s the sense in that? This Government’s welfare reforms are forcing sick and disabled people into work placements, deeming them ‘fit for work’ before they truly are. These people then fail to hold down the job due to their illness or disability which lands them back on benefits (possibly under some kind of sanction) and in an even worse condition than when they were on benefits before the reforms. The reforms are setting people up to fail which does nothing for the benefit bill in the long term, does nothing for the individual in the short or long term and does nothing to help the economy. Where’s the sense in that?

    Surely even someone as ignorant as you obviously are can see that this Government’s plans aren’t working?

    Labour made a lot of mistakes and I have never said otherwise but continually blaming them for the current situation is unproductive and totally destructive. This Government is three years into its term and the situation has not gotten any better, it has gotten worse. Stop blaming Labour for the ConDems failures because if you (and others like you) don’t, then you’re part of the bloody problem not part of the solution! The only way forward is for all the parties to work together on a non-ideological footing to sort out the mistakes caused by successive Tory and Labour administrations.

    You may wish to comment on this reply, feel free. For once, however, I have put my point across and have decided to withdraw from what is obviously a pointless discussion with a man with his head buried so far in the sand that the reality of what is going on in society in this country is as fictional as the Tory Manifesto 2010 was for the rest of us.

  26. Just a quick note for people who wish to reply to my comments – You don’t have to call me Valen Myles Cook, you can just use either Valen (my preferred name), Myles or Mr Cook (if you wish to be formal). I only objected to being called VMC because that could stand for Val Morris-Cook and, while Ms Morris-Cook is a nice person, I’m not her.

    Thank you for playing!

  27. Valen
    I have a watched the continuing bullying and baiting of yourself by Bernard87and NoVoice and I would say Mr Ray has made it perfectly clear that he has not changed his views as reported on the hope not hate site
    [We read him the contents of his election leaflet and he told us that he still stood by everything that was written, claiming that immigrants still established ghetto areas in this country]
    I am also informed UKIP have a policy of not letting anybody join their party who have in the past belonged to right-wing organisations, quite clearly this has been ignored, and is clearly non-defendable the reasons this policy was introduced by UKIP was presumably to stop people like Mr Ray from infiltrating the UKIP party, surely if Mr Ray stood by everything that was written he would be better off joining the EDL a group clearly attuned to Mr Rays policies. I would also think when Mr Ray votes at Thurrock Council on any consideration, which by the way is usually in favour of the Tory group at Thurrock this would leave Mr Anderson in a precarious position, of accepting a helping hand from somebody who was a former NF candidate, but on second thoughts what would that matter to Mr Anderson and his group they showed themselves to be racists, as reported earlier this month. As I’ve said Valen keep up the good work, of which I look forward to reading

  28. Mr Cook back to the issue of this story. We have a democratically elected councillor who, by all accounts works hard for his residents. Groups and individuals have launched a campaign to out him as a racist. The witch hunters are out to get him. The ambulance chasers want their piece of flesh. Why, becasue he doesn’t agree with mass immigration so he’s a racist.

    Mass immigration was brought in to stick up the noses of the right, according to one of the former Labour party advisers. It was a social engineering policy borne out of spite. It was a policy, in my view, to ensure perpetual victory in elections for the left.

    If the Labour party is to be believed, mass immigration was an economic policy desigend to increase economic growth and increased income for the country to pay for an ageing population. It has been an unmitigated failure in that respect.

    The words racist and xenophobe have no meaning any more. They are merely a point of view expressed by people who are left wing and supporters of mass immigration.

    People like another coward called concerned resident prove the point about ambulance chasers, witch hunters and the left wing desire to smear anyone that does not agree with mass immigration, the point of this article. They don’t look at what a democratically elected councillor does, they look at what he may have a political view on and if that view is against their sacred cow of mass immigration, then he will be hunted down and denegrated. It’s like the scene out of invasion of the body snatchers, if you’re not one of them, then you have to be identified for not being one of them. Does this ring a bell with you Mr Cook.

    Mass immigration for me is not about people as individuals. It’s no about where they come from. It’s a numbers game. There are too many people coming into this country. It has destabilised this country and is causing social and economic chaos. It is a spiteful, politically motivated, unmitigated failure of a policy designed to benefit the left in terms of political domination. It has failed everyone in this country and all to pander to the lefts desire to stick it up the noses of the right. That to me is a failure of the people of this country that should banish the Labour party from power forever.

    The supporters of this policy, like the coward concerned resident, should look their children in the eye and tell them they do this for them. They support mass unemployment of young people. They support a policy that has produced a housing crisis that has undermined a governments principal duty of being able to house it’s own people and provide them with gainful employment. I am not blinkered and I do not have my head in the sand or anywhere else dark. I see this for what it is. The left can’t accept that.

  29. concerned resident – Thanks for your support but I’m not being bullied by Bernard87, we just have a difference of opinion and, although we clash from time to time, he does raise valid points sometimes and makes for a lively debate even though we rarely see eye to eye.

    As for NoVoice – he doesn’t bully me either but he does bait me by calling me left-wing when I have, on numerous and repeated, occasions shown that I have no political affiliation.

    NoVoice is a one issue moron who believes that no-one else is concerned with the levels of immigration into this country and that an individual has to be left-wing to call people like him a xenophobic, intolerant, bigoted, racist looper, which, as I’m not left-wing, you clearly don’t have to be.

    NoVoice believes that Cllr Ray should not be castigated for his views of 40 years ago, that he may or may not still hold, and people should judge him on his record as a councillor. Not only did I agree with that and openly stated that earlier, a fact that he cheerfully ignored I may add, but I have said a similar thing before when talking about local representation on the council. I stated that, and I have to paraphrase here as I can’t remember the exact words, people should elect councillors based on what they do/will do for the local community and not based on their party affiliation.

    NoVoice likes to bait people so that they become angry, slip up and say something they don’t mean that may reinforce his negative opinion of the Left or anyone who may express a view that he perceives as left-wing. The trouble with using that approach on me is that 1) when I deal with him I’m not at all angry, merely sad at such a blinkered individual, 2) I can go on countering his xenophobic loopiness without getting angry ad infinitum and 3) I clearly outclass him in a debate. I’m sure NoVoice believes himself to be a master debater but he actually comes across as slightly less than that, if you catch my drift.

    I actually enjoy getting NoVoice wound up as the more he tries to disprove himself a xenophobic looper the more he proves he is one. The fun thing is I don’t have to bait him, he actually baits himself!

    So, thanks again for the support but it really is unnecessary with regards to this debate.

  30. concerned resident – Just a quick addition to my last comment regarding NoVoice – I suffer from really high blood pressure but when I deal with NoVoice my blood pressure actually lowers considerably as he has a soporific effect on me. I should be able to sleep better tonight. I just hope I don’t fall asleep on the bus on my way to Basildon in an hour or so! 😀

  31. Good luck on the bus mr Cook. Perhaps you can accompany him Mr Coward. No answer. No solution. No Idea. How very Ed Miliband. Good night.

  32. NoVoice – You haven’t provided any answers/solutions/ideas either. All you do – all you EVER do – is blame Labour and mass immigration. When you have an original thought that doesn’t include those two subjects, let me know as far in advance as possible because the shock could kill me.

  33. I hate to state the obvoius but here goes. Stop mass immigration. Stop failed eastern european and southern european countries from sending their unemployed here, along with the rest of the world. Next you’ll be telling me they don’t. I go on about it Myles because I think it’s a bit of an issue that concerns the majority of people in this country. If you’re not interested, don’t concern yourself with it.

  34. NoVoice – We can’t stop mass immigration from any of the member countries of the EU because open borders is part of the EU agreement and we can’t break that without leaving the EU so moaning about it isn’t going to help.

    The rest of the world is another matter but that isn’t being addressed by the Tories as it also wasn’t addressed by Labour.

    Given those facts, your ‘ideas’ are basically pointless because the issue of immigration is a convenient political football for both the Left and the Right. The Left are seemingly OK with it so won’t do anything about it and use the Right’s position to turn opinion against them. The Right will talk about doing something about immigration but won’t actually do anything because they can use the Left’s position on the issue to turn public opinion against them. A perfect example of partisan politics and the complete stagnation it causes.

    What I find really funny is that you blame me for assuming that I’m the only one concerned with the various topics I raise but you have just made the same assumption about me on this issue. Stop making a complete fool of yourself or should I say more of a fool than you already do.

  35. Immigration is a huge issue. In fact I cannot see how we can massively improve the economy, public services, housing shortages, low wages etc etc without dealing with immigration effectively. NoVoice is right to keep mentioning it as immigration over the last decade has made this country worse not better. It has been too fast with no integration and was done deliberately whether those more left leaning want to believe it or not.

    Groups like HNH shut down any debate on immigration as they see it as a good thing. In many cases it is, and the UK benefits from decent Filipino nurses, Indian doctors, Chinese businessmen who all contribute to the country….but there is a downside that such groups rather forget.

    However that said Myles is right. We cannot stop EU immigration without leaving the EU and no main party is going to allow us to leave. They all seem to think that the UK will crumble without it. Myles is also right when he describes the left and the right playing the public with their rhetoric on immigration. The Polly Toynbees and Polly Billingtons know that the more immigrants in the UK, the more likely Labour will be in power for evermore. On the other side of the spectrum you have Cameron and Osbourne and their like who also favour mass immigration as it doesn’t threaten them or their jobs. Many Tory MPs have spoken up about immigration and I reckon only a small fraction are really bothered about it. Peter Bone springs to mind. So you end up with a stagnant position on the issue.

    Until this country starts to see real, patriotic, honest politicians like Thatcher, Churchill, Atlee, Bevan, Gaitskill, Tebbit etc our country will be in a constant state of stagnation, much like the late 60s and all of the 70s.

    I hope that in the name of fairness and equality HNH name and shame any Labour members up and down the land that also used to be members of any facist groups from 1970-2013 as well. Or does fairness and equality only work one way?

  36. I’m sorry Myles my attention span is on a downturn. I don’t agree with mass immigration.The majority of people in this country don’t. I’m not racist, its to do with numbers, not how people look. It’s also to do with peoples ability to support themselves when they get here.

    I was a previous Labour party member but I saw the writing on the wall with Blair and Brown. I whole heartedly support welfare for people that really need it. I whole heartedly support asylum for people from war torn countries. I whole heartedly support immigration to a certain level, if we didn’t have it we’d all have bonky eyes, bad teeth and be sitting on a porch playing a banjo. Mass immigration is wrong. The left introduced it. They don’t have an answer to its consequences and they now deny it was anything to do with them. Get real Myles. You know this and so does everyone else. Why do you think the Labour party are imploding. it’s a sad sorry spectacle when you se a former prime minister run away from a reporter. Where’s Blair and co. you know it’s a turd sandwich that someone has to have the balls to sort out. That’s UKIP and that’s why they are being attacked.

LEAVE A REPLY

Please enter your comment!
Please enter your name here

Latest

More articles