FORMER Thurrock MP, Andrew Mackinlay has gone on the record to explain why he intends to vote for the Liberal Democrats at Thursday’s European Elections.
Mr Mackinlay was Labour MP for Thurrock between 1992 and 2010.
A Labour Party member for over 52 years, he told YT he has no intention of leaving the party but as a passionate supporter of the European Union he feels he cannot vote for Labour and will instead vote for the Liberal Democrats.
Hi Andrew,
I shall be voting for the Brexit Party for the same reason as you intend to vote for the Liberal Democrats, i.e. the Brexit Party is the only Party unequivocally supporting the result of the 2016 referendum in that we leave the EU, deal or no deal. You say that since the 2016 vote a lot of young people have become eligible to vote implying that if a second referendum “peoples vote” was held in 2020 it could produce a result much more to your liking. The problem is that young people ineligible to vote in 2020 could demand a re-run on the same grounds, i.e. that they also had become eligible to vote, a situation that could repeat itself with referendum after referendum. I am sure that, like me, you would agree that would be undesirable.
By the way Andrew would you explain the difference between a “referendum” and a “peoples vote”.
Nice to hear from you.
Given that you’re advocating voting for a party other than Labour and, thus breaking party rules, I’m sure you’ll be doing the decent and honourable thing and leave the Labour Party to save them the hassle of having to expell you for breaking the party rules.
Peter Perrin – You still owe me an apology for personally attacking me in your blog earlier this year.
I hope we won’t have any more of your whining over losing your Labour membership when you are, once again, advocating for another political party against Labour party rules.
Peter said.
” Andrew Nice to hear from you.”
Thats more Than I ever did from your blog Peter you showed me less respect than a pedophile.
But went out of your way to reply to a Iraq war, WMD, 45 Min, Criminal. called Andrew.
Yeah blairirghts don’t vote Labour they vote Lib Dem.
As for Brexit we could cloase the crossing in 15mins. Whats the problem. apart from a lack of action by leading Brexiteers Like Boris, Nigel, Rees Mogg. and a group who don’t want to do it like May… and gang.
If a terrorist the border would be closed in 15 mins.
Joke. shit leadership by all sides both brexiteers and remainers.
What are they trying to do.
Andrew
As for EU.
complex good and bad.
EU federal government bad, EU army bad.
Trade good.
Peace good,
What I don’t want to see is war in europe.
We will be taking a economic hit and low growth, Could change in future depending on future policy, But DON’T get into an “America First” trade deal. You will kill British Business. Wait till next President for a trade deal that lifts both ships.
It really does worry me they are only getting out of a free trade deal to sell us out to an “America FIrst” one sided deal to the yanks.
Andrew Mackinlay, a true Labour hypocrite. Remember the MP’s expenses Andrew???
How about a Thurrock school that needed support, when you realised the issues and problems were caused by a Labour Council you could never be contacted again….and all those children that suffered at the hands of a Labour LEA too, shame on you.
Two faced hypocrite,
The Brexit Party is the only party for Britain and honouring the people’s decision.
I do worry the Brexit Party
Will sell Great Britain out on the America First deal. With Nigels links with Trump.
I really worry about that.
From a clear democratic angle.
In some ways it would of been easier if the EU elections had two parties in it the Brexit Party and the Remain party.
instead of 6 or seven parties with one defined.
Another mess up.
looks like the end of the Tories.
This will fuel anger and divisions even more. We need to look at this from a sensible angle. Leave. Then rejoin if the people decide democratically at a later date. We have votes every five years anyway.
and maybe Scotland and NI will leave the UK. But thats the will of the people.
The Brexit Party – a political party that accepts membership fees from anyone anywhere in the world (an affront to UK electoral law and democracy) fronted by a man whose only claim to fame is being an elected representative for the European Parliament, a body he has always stated is an undemocratic unelected institution. Oh the irony.
Makes you wonder how stupid anyone who intends to vote for the Brexit Party really is, doesn’t it?
It is funny you bringing that up I was only seeing in the news (Mirror) that they joined the Brexit Party with Vladimir Putin’s name and Kremlin address.
What next Hitler and the Bunker in Berlin. I take it the postcode is SS. and thats not Southend-on-Sea. Is it. How ironic on so many sad levels. but then his wife is German. and he did get his kids German passports post Brexit. So he wants them to Remain.
Catching the Bus – Yes, it’s extremely hypocritical of many of the loudest of the loud-mouthed Brexiteers to make it a priority to get themselves and their families passports with countries in the EU so they can retain freedom of movement within an international institution of countries that they violently oppose the existence of. Or move their businesses out of the UK to either EU countries or countries that have trade deals with the EU despite the fact that they have insisted that the UK will have the best deal with the EU ever. Sounds to me as if they don’t really believe the crap they’ve been spouting since 2016.
Why would anyone with even half a brain now vote Tory, Labour or even worse the Lib Dems.
Respect the people’s vote and leave the corrupt EU now. It looks to me only the Brexit Party will deliver the majorities wish.
The establishment have conned us all for years and now are scarred to death of the support Farage generates.
The apathetic numbnut British public are a pure delight for the mainstream parties.
“The apathetic numbnut British public are a pure delight for the mainstream parties.”
Always have been thats why you voted for traitor Major/Thatcher. How is the Conservative
maastricht treaty?
Now you jump on the Brexit brand. A party funded by commie barsteds not even democratic a company instead.
Next the Corrupt House of (Loonie) lords then the house of (comics) Commons the House of Lords and even at times MP’s like the City of London MP are undemocratic. and Whitehall Bureaucrats.
Time to deal with this 40 years of economic neoliberal nightmare. in the US, UK, EU Canada, Australia, and world.
But it shocks me you support a party that is undemocratic (a company) and accepts members and money from anywhere in the world.
I can fully accept you wanting to leave the EU. But I don’t get you support of something undemocratic IE the Brexit Party Company. Just because it suits your current political belief. as it did Major’s Conservatives a that time.
We are fast heading towards fascism if we aint careful allowing companies to privatise our freedoms and electral process.
Also this America first trade deal must NEVER happen. It will kill British Business.
Wait till next President who wants to lift both countries.
Instead of an America one sided deal. Not in our national interest I worry they will sell us out. By the Dollar lets face it.
Catching the Bus – You’re absolutely right to point out that The Brexit Party is not actually a political party but a private company. It must be pointed out that The Brexit Party doesn’t have any members and the supporters who pay £25 for the privilege but with absolutely no voting rights on the supposed party’s direction or non-existent manifesto can come from anywhere in the world which is against electoral law (UK electoral law not EU electoral law so the EU has nothing to do with it although they may have a similar law).
As for the economic consequences of Brexit, the UK has already lost £1 TRILLION in assets due to an exodus of businesses worried about Brexit and that’s why Brexit is, quite rightly, seen as a massive economic catastrophe in the making. And this is not Project Fear 2.0 as some Brexiteers might call it, this is a very real and already happened consequence of the entire Brexit debacle. Let us not forget as well that the idea of a No Deal Brexit only impacts on trade in GOODS; SERVICES aren’t even covered even though they are approximately 80% of the UK’s trade.
If we leave the EU with no deal, we fall back on WTO rules which are not a deal in any sense of the word; they are the basis for trade negotiations which will automatically impose tariffs on imports and exports of both goods and services. Tariffs on goods will increase food prices, etc making it harder to purchase the necessities of life at a time when, due to the exodus of businesses, there may well be job losses and reduced corporation tax revenue and possibly reduced personal income tax revenue.
The UK will be able to control the tariffs on goods and services, that’s true, but whatever tariffs we put in our schedule of tariffs must be applied to every country in the world under WTO rules and our schedule of tariffs must first be agreed by the other members of the WTO club and any single WTO member can veto agreement WITHOUT giving any reason.
To demonstrate just one example – government procurement agreements (GPA) cover 46 countries, negotiated by the WTO (nothing to do with the EU except that we are part of it through the EU). GPA sets up where British companies can bid for a tender on, for example, US government contracts on infrastructure projects. The market is worth $1.7 trillion. The UK’s re-entry to the GPA has to be ratified by all 45 other members and Moldova’s said no because we denied a visa to a government minister coming to the UK to talk about future trade. Moldova is not part of the EU but is a part of Europe and a full member of the GPA. We have given the power over whether the UK is part of a $1.7 trillion market to Moldova.
WTO is not democratic because we have only one representative at the WTO table out of a total of 146 and any of the other 145 countries can put the kibosh on our plans for tariffs and yet Farage wants us to leave the EU to which we democratically elect 73 MEPs to put the UK’s point across (if they bother to turn up, that is) and that we wield significant power in for a WTO club in which we have much less representation and any single country can wield significant power over us.
What about trade deals with the rest of the world that will save us from economic oblivion you may ask? Well, the EU has negotiated trade deals with 168 countries and territories around the world (comprehensive free trade deals, EEA deals or association deals). The 759 international treaties are going to have to be renegotiated by the UK on our own. However, for example, if we open trade negotiations with the islands of Tuvalu in the Pacific Ocean over fishing rights to replicate what we may have with them through the EU, the EU has to be involved in the negotiation because we might be infringing on the rights they have already negotiated such as quotas. As part of the bigger deals with Japan and Canada, it states that you can’t give a better deal to anyone else. If a country does give us a better deal they then have to give an even better deal to the EU than it’s already given them. Given those FACTS, we would not only be giving every single WTO member a say over what tariffs we can charge on imports and exports, we would also be giving the EU a say over any trade deals the UK wishes to make with countries the EU already has deals with.
Farage keeps making a great deal of controlling our borders which is a fair point but a No Deal Brexit may end up causing a tsunami of immigration from non-EU countries as the UK has to whore itself out to get trade deals. Let’s take a hypothetical example, Hinkley Point C nuclear power station. This is an investment by the French and the Chinese to build a power station that is vital to our power needs. If we leave the EU without a deal, the French might pull their investment in Hinckley C. We might be lucky and the Chinese might cover the lost French investment but they may only do so by imposing upon their offer a requirement for freedom of movement for Chinese nationals. We might end up with a gigantic wave of Chinese immigrants just to seal a single deal. Now I’m OK with having thousands of Chinese women coming to the UK because I adore Chinese women and, even though I don’t stand a chance of landing one, I’d be happy just being surrounded by them but I’m pretty sure a lot of Brexit Party voters/No Deal Brexiteers won’t like a load of foreigners coming to the UK.
Just imagine what concessions the UK will have to make to negotiate the 759 trade treaties, ones that we are already a part of as a member of the EU. Farage doesn’t care because he’s well off enough financially to not be adversely affected but many Brexit Party voters aren’t so lucky.
Finally, even if the increase in prices for food and other goods doesn’t hurt the UK as badly as it is being predicted to because of the tariffs that will be automatically put on all goods entering and leaving the country, the UK still has a harder situation to face. Under WTO rules, there are NO LIMITS to the level of tariffs imposed on SERVICES and, as I have stated before, services account for approximately 80% of the UK’s trade. Not only may we be punished by any single WTO member country by them vetoing our proposed schedule of tariffs but ANY country with which we wish to make a trade deal could impose crippling tariffs on our services in order to protect their own service market and that may crush our service industry. All of this is based on FACTS that anyone can look up for themselves on the internet.
A vote for the Brexit Party is a vote for a No Deal Brexit, a vote for imposing trade sanctions on ourselves, a vote for leaving a democratically elected organisation in which we wield significant power for a less democratic organisation in which we have very little power and in which a small country such as Moldova can prevent us taking part in a $1.7 TRILLION market. Well done, Brexit Party supporters, you have justified my belief in the inherent stupidity of the human race!
FYI – The population of Moldova is, according to the 2017 census, 3,350,900 (including Transnistria). And, under WTO rules, they could have significant power over the UK with a population of 66,040,229 based on an estimate from 2017.
CTB my friend, I am not a Tory voter but one that can see the country going down hill faster than Thurrock.
A no deal Brexit will not effect us in the long term, short term I agree it will have implications, but we will thrive once we shed the strangle hold of a corrupt EU.
This country has be left in ruins by weak politicians of all sides and we now need hard line policies to get us back on our feet and exiting the EU is just the start.
Britain is slowly waking up I think but we most move away from the feeble minded left as quick as possible.
Agree start with HARD LINE Policies kill Anti-Capitalist Banksters. Who have killed this great country.
Waterboard all Politicians who caused fake Wars. and those who supported them.
Kill anyone who signs an America first one sided trade that BETRAYS this GREAT country.
Kill economic 1% Neoliberalism and go to Capitalism of the 50’S 60’s “the Golden age of capitalism”.
We have been soft on them for too long.
The Gloves are now off.
I am glad you agree TGDH. Those Neoliberals
Blairrights and Reaganonics, Thatcherite TRAITORS have killed the US and UK. its all going to shit time to take a HARD LINE stand against them. everyone knows they lied about trickle down economics it was always trickle up. its time for pay back and payback they WILL.
for 40 years the British establishment have been corrupt and sold us out. Ever since Thatcher but before as well.
It is time to take a HARD LINE STANCE AGAINST THEM. KILL ECONOMIC 1% NEOLIBALISM THAT IS KILLING OUR COUNTRY and get Capitalism back and those big businesses who don’t want to compete in the free market Will THAT i can tell you. We have been too soft left wing on them for too long. It’s time for compeditive Capitalism. and compete they WILL.
Catching the Bus – “We have been too soft left wing on them for too long.”
You say that you want a free market economy but then you say that the Left has been too soft. If the Left had their way, there would be more regulation of the market, not less. If there had been more regulation, the banksters wouldn’t have been able to tank the global economy. As it was the Blairites in charge at the time (and in no way a real Left-wing party), it was a fault of the centre-Right, not the Left. The UK has been under Thatcherite policies since 1979 and they are very much Right-wing policies.
What are you really in favour of – a free market economy, a Left-wing State regulated economy or a mixed economy that has some regulation in important sectors?
And where do you stand on the subject of a No Deal Brexit given that one commentator suggested that leaving the EU will damage our economy for 30 YEARS whilst another commentator said it could damage it for up to 50 YEARS?
I think whatever our political ideology the one thing we would all like to see is a common sense party that had fair policies in place for all. Put Britain first, look after it’s people and have a fair and balanced society.
You commit serious crime you pay for it ..hard. You contribute to society, all well and good.We look after the sick, the elderly and those unable to contribute and we stop the free loaders draining us dry (thats not a pop at Valen). Stop rewarding failure (Crossrail,Bankers etc) and stop jobs for the boys politicians and sort the NHS and the corrupt police forces.
And that is just the start.
That is a good post TGDH.
Only if everyone could use the term Banksters and not bankers that would be good not all bankers caused this. I have some very good banking friends including my on/off long term girlfriend. There is natually a big differance by definition of a bankster and banker.
But there is a section of society at the top 1% and Vikki Pollards. Who ain’t playing by the rules.
We ALL want our country and indeed every other country to succeed.
The truth is most of our problems is this economic model it will only ever work for the 1% “by design” because they don’t have to compete or even follow the law, in fact they lobby and write the law. and will get more draconian as time goes on.
Changing this is a massive step but the elite will fight.
Valen
As for my economic view Capitalist on everything apart from Socialist Health, Education, Army.
I dont want the SAS privatised or (Democratic freedom) elections sold off. Or even bought.
Valen
what I meant so you can understand it is
the Right wing have been left wing on the economy. what I mean by left wing is SOFT not right wing HARD LINE.
Crime pays nowadays because they de-regulated everything to the point the US sub prime market could blow up along with a long list of other things.
You need a safety valve in place like most things in life because shit happens.
They came down hard on Blind people that I know, but then let Banksters get away with Murder.
I know I could of explained it better but you all know what I mean.
Valen as for where I Stand on No-Deal.
1. We have to leave the EU (Voted). I know you may not want to hear that but we can rejoin if we decide at a later date.
2. No-Deal worst case
seems to be an anti-europe thing to me. Bad for trade as they are our biggest partner.
We need a deal with all nations we can including EU.
3. Yes will take 30+ years, in 100 who knows where we will be (cannot be predicted by anyone to many variables)
What scares me is the very people behind this (Nigel Farage, Boris) seem to be championing an America First one sided deal with Trump. US corporations and US government is a master at shafting other countries and businesses breaking there side of the deal everytime.
We need a new president for a deal one that will lift both nations.
Because I fear Nigel Farage will sell us out with his good Pal Trump.
Catching the Bus – The only way for an economy to work properly is for it to be mixed. Unfettered capitalism isn’t going to solve anything and neither will unrestrained socialism. We need to have things like the NHS, public transport, utilities and the most important industries in public ownership because they are the things that our society rely on and make up the bulk of a family’s living expenses. We need regulation on things like rent in the private sector and making sure that such privately rented properties are fit for human habitation. The free market can pick up what’s left.
As for leaving the EU, although I was a Remain voter, I have always said that we should leave the EU based on the result of the EU Referendum. However, since the referendum was subject to illegalities in 2016 which may have skewed the result and which would have invalidated the entire referendum had it been a legally binding vote (not the “we’ll respect the result despite it being only an advisory vote”), it should only be right, given the paralysis in Parliament, that a confirmatory vote be conducted on whether to accept whatever ‘deal’ is presented to us. Whether the confirmatory vote includes options for No Deal and Revoke is none of my concern.
Yes, we could re-join the EU at a later date but the UK will never get the terms that we currently have as members. We would lose our veto, would probably have to join the Euro and the significant power we wield in the European Parliament (if our MEPs could be bothered to turn up) would disappear. We would be a weaker member state than we currently are and we would have to whore ourselves out for what little power we would be allowed.
We already trade with many countries worldwide as members of the EU and we’ll never be able to get better deals with those countries because of the reasons I stated in an earlier comment. WTO Rules seems to be a massive advantage until you look at the details and you’ll find that far from “taking back control” of our trade, we would actually be giving up control to every single country that is signed up to the WTO and, in cases where they have a trade agreement with a specific country we want to trade with, the EU as well.
Look at the mess the UK is in after only 9 years of Tory austerity – poverty up, crime up, food bank usage up, life expectancy down, job security gone and let’s not forget the hundreds of people who have died because of cuts to disability benefits. The UK has lost £1 TRILLION in assets and that’s before Brexit has even happened. Brexiteers have been saying that Brexit isn’t that bad but it hasn’t happened yet. Business investment has stopped and some of it has already been pulled. Just think what will happen when we have to impose tariffs on imports and exports of goods and services. Does 30 years of that sort of damage really look like a good idea for the UK? We have barely survived 9 years of austerity – how the Hell would the UK survive 30 more years of it? How many disabled people will die in that time? What about the younger generation? It may be OK for the members of the older generation who voted to leave the EU because, statistically, some of them have already died since the referendum and more will die before too long so they won’t have to live with the consequences of Brexit but the younger generation have their entire lives to deal with the consequences and have been robbed of the opportunities that the older generation have had for the last 40-odd years as citizens of an EU member state.
Finally, as someone who legitimately relies on disability benefits to live, I’m worried what effect Brexit will have on the welfare budget and the impact it will have on me. I prefer to focus on the effects on society as a whole but, for once, I have to worry about the personal effect Brexit will have me. I know there are people out there who would be glad to see the back of me and I have no illusions that I am viewed in anything but a bad light by many, however, that doesn’t make my arguments any less right or my worries for the UK, as a patriot, any less real. Brexit is going to be bad for the UK. A No Deal Brexit will be an economic catastrophe and no amount of flag waving is going to make that any less true either. The strength of the UK was always in the alliances we made. We were always viewed as a strong guiding light in many of those alliances but we have decided to play Russian roulette with our economy using a six shooter with every chamber filled and are insisting on taking the first shot.