A LEADING Oil industry expert has questioned the tactics of the fuel protestors, who have been targeting oil refineries around the country including Coryton in Corringham.
Only eight protestors turned up last Saturday. Another protest is due again this Saturday morning.
The industry expert put a number of questions to the protestors. He did not receive a reply. They have asked not to be named but they contacted us and with kind permission we have reprinted his questions.
“First of all you say you are a cause wanting a reduction of Fuel TAX but you are planing protests outside refineries. Does that not strike you as stupid? The oil companies do not set the tax rates and they spend a lot of money and effort to try and influence governments not to have excessive taxes on fuel.
You may as well be against tax on cigarettes and protesting outside a tobacco plant…Is that sinking in yet? So aside from the fact you are picketing the wrong people..doh! Lets look at the merits of your cause.
Governments apply fuel tax as a way to raise revenue which they need to operate and to reduce consumption of what we all surely agree is a finite resource and a great cause of pollution. The Labour government signed up to Kyoto, Copenhagen, and a whole lot of other international agreements that are all designed to reduce the impact mankind has made on this planet.
Without wanting to sound like an Eco warrior you would have to be pretty stupid not to think that all this pollution is having a negative effect on the world. If you look at the floods in Australia, the super storm heading towards LA, and the warming of the Arctic ocean there is proof of climate change and a very real need for concern.
I’d hasten to point out that for the UK a melting of the polar ice cap risks switching off the Gulf Stream and weather like you had in December will become the norm. On top of this you have “peak oil” which is when we reach the peak of consumption outstrips supply of oil products.
The Peak Oil is a Bell Curve event where once you reach the top, the downside is steep and swift. Many scientists believe and I agree with them that we reached Peak Oil in 2006 and this means oil is running out very fast. The future without abundant oil is not bright. Firstly you will see hyper inflation of commodities leading to boom and bust economies (2008 ring any bells) and then you will have rolling power cuts and petrol rationing.
Beyond that there will be higher food costs as farming on the scale we know today becomes impossible which will lead to famine and starvation. Oil producing nations will try and hold onto their own oil and that will cause wars. These things may sound far fetched and a long time in the future but if we have already reached Peak Oil then we better come up with an alternative to oil, change our ways, or start to see these events happen in the next 10-20 years. So applying a tax that keeps a lid on consumption is not only a good way to raise money, it goes some way to protecting the planet and our own survival. For further reading try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil or http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
The need to raise revenue is also a big factor in fuel tax and the new 20% VAT. The UK debt is now just over 1 trillion pounds. Now write down on a piece of paper how many zeros that means and then think how long that would take to pay off using the revenue obtained by current Fuel duty (about 30 billion a year) The answer is 33 years and that does not take into account the interest the UK Govt pays on that debt. At the moment with low interest rates for every pound the govt takes in taxes, 20p is spent just on meeting the interest payments. Can you imagine running your house or a business like that?
Are you honestly going to say that if the interest on your credit card bill was 20% of your net wages every week you wouldn’t be worried? The first thing you would be doing is selling what you could on ebay to reduce the amount borrowed and looking for a second job. Unfortunately Labour got the UK into so much debt that it is going to take Cameron’s Govt a full 4 years to get to a point where they no longer have to borrow more than they earn. Yes that is right, the UK is still borrowing money! After 4 years it is hoped that the budget will have a surplus, only then will they be able to start paying back the money, estimated to be closer to 1.5 trillion by then!
Yes I read your comments that the Government should stop all foreign aid, pull out of the EU, and kick out all the foreigners. Despite the fact that all western countries have a moral obligation to give aid reducing that or just not giving any wouldn’t stop the rot.The total foreign aid in 2010 was only 8.4 billion, peanuts. Pulling out of the EU would be counter productive because what little manufacturing and farming still goes on in the UK would then have no where to sell its goods. Throwing out foreigners might appeal to the BNP but its never going to happen. Even the two expensive wars which I personally were against only cost 15 billion and they are over now.
The fact is the Government will reduce military spending and cut back aid where they can as part of the measures designed to reduce and eventually get rid of a budget deficit (where they spend more than they raise in tax) but they will still need to keep the fuel tax money. This is all about cutting costs, not cutting revenue. Further reading http://www.debtbombshell.com/
Should we have a fuel stabiliser? Well if you ask me then no. Its a bit of fluff designed to buy votes. Every country that has tried to influence domestic oil prices has lost money hand over fist and as we all know, the UK Govt can not afford this. Petrol and Diesel net of tax may only be around 40p right now and while in the very short term that is set to go lower the medium to long term trend is up. Crude is going to break through $100/bbl this year and the cost of crude has an obvious direct effect on transport fuels. Global demand for fuel is increasing, it is elastic to economic growth and whilst Europe is only growing by about 1% a year and the US about 3% Asian economic growth is staggering. Asia economic growth was 13.7% last year. Chinese domestic retail sales grew by 18.3% last year and new vehicle sales reached 13.6 million units. That is a lot of fuel demand for both transport and industry. Last year China out bid both European and American interests to secure the entire Nigerian crude production and they are not stopping. Every bit of oil (and every other commodity) coming out of the ground can find a buyer in Asia. If the UK wants oil it has to compete with that demand and pay ever increasing costs to secure it. We will see $100+ crude in 2011, $150+ crude in 2012 and as the US economy improves quicker than the UK the imported price will become higher as well. Oil is priced in Dollars and so a higher oil price and a higher dollar value is a double whammy to the UK driver.
If the Govt were to agree to set the maximum price of these at £1.00 per litre then they would be giving up more and more tax revenue until eventually they started to fund fuel with a subsidy. Oil would be cheaper so the UK would consume more. You are kidding yourself if you do not believe price and demand are linked so now the tax payer is going to pay the public to waste petrol. You would also open the Government to market manipulation as oil retailers could charge what they liked in the full knowledge that the tax payer is artificially supporting the price. Read this http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/China/Background.html and http://www.iags.org/china.htm
So lets sum things up here. Oil is going to become more and more expensive as countries compete for what is left of a finite resource that is running out faster than we had expected. The Government is broke and needs every penny it can lay its hands on. Consumption of oil is linked to price and the lower the price the quicker we use it up, and when its gone our kids will starve and have to fight wars.
But your group wants to cap petrol and diesel at £1.00 a litre because you don’t give a f@@ about the planet, the economy, or worst of all, the future just so long as you don’t have to walk to the shops or take a bus. I think you are all deluded like all those other europeans that were convinced the Earth was flat. Rather than write poorly constructed letter to MPs asking for a reduction in tax you should be campaigning for more public funds to be allocated towards public transport and investing in alternative energy.
To leave your children a legacy of debt and dwindling energy stocks is selfish in the extreme. It is so morally corrupt it would probably surpass the atrocities of Germany in the last century and go down in the history of mankind as the worst single act of self destruction ever. If you feel that you have had enough now, spare a thought to the s@@ you are asking the next generation to go through.
The fact that you would not allow something like this to be published on your facebook cause displays to me your level of dishonesty, you want to hide the truth again, just like those Germans did way back in the 1930’s”
What an extraordinary outburst! The oil industry ‘expert’ has managed to cook up a concoction of a little bit of truth, a pinch of debatables and a whole lot of outrageous claptrap. The truth? That the Government is skint and can’t afford to reduce the admittedly high tax on fuel. The debatable? That we have reached ‘Peak Flow’ for oil. There is a lot of discussion and disagreement on that one. The outrageous?
“you would have to be pretty stupid not to think that all this pollution is having a negative effect on the world”. Well I have to tell him that Man Made Global Warming is very much in debate and is by no means proven. In fact the evidence just does not back it up at all so who is he calling stupid? The talk of melting ice caps and switching off the Gulf Stream is alarmist nonsense in the context of oil use. It may happen but not as a result of anything we humans are doing.
When oil is gone our kids will starve and fight wars? More alarmist nonsense. As ever, us humans are pretty resourceful and we will find a way to do without.
Having said all that, his main point is valid. There is not a lot of point protesting at the refineries when they are not responsible for the high cost of oil. The protesters are misguided and ill informed.
Sorry i think you oil spokeman wants to get his head out of the large cloud he has had it in for the past ten or so years
1 this is such an unfair taxs it is unbelivable as it effect everybody par the politicians as they have there stuff paid for them
2 the reason this country is in such a mess at the moment is the millions of pounds lent to banks to bail them out after people defaulted so basically bad lending is that the publics fault no it the greedy fat cats that want to line there pockets
3 the wars are not over and by the looks of things wont be over for a long while yes most of the fighting has stopped but now comes the huge clean up
4 goverment wants you to think that because of are need to burn fossil fuels the temp of the earth is rising some say this is natural for the earth to rise and fall some scietist belive that this is a fact that can be followed back in time
5 ways to make money back for the goverment how about taxing all the foreign lorry drivers that come into this country instead of them coming in for the week getting rid of there first load and carrying on making money by doing more loads while not filling the tank because they have enough if they fill up in france this is very common place now a days
6 getting the likes of bp and shell to release some of the projescts that they brought many years ago as the combustion engine in its own right has been out of date for at least 60 years
rant over next time check your facts as for the protestors good on them since they are doing something not just bending over whil,e the goverment decided who to shaft next
As Primary Administrator to the Facebook site Keep Fuel Below £1 per
Litre I have just had your report ‘ Oil industry expert slams Coryton
Fuel Protests’ sent to me.
Firstly where did your oil industry expert put questions to who?
Quote ‘The industry expert put a number of questions to the protestors.
He did not receive a reply. They have asked not to be named but they
contacted us and with kind permission we have reprinted his questions.
The comment above makes no sense if no one answered him.
Secondly these comments you have printed are posts that have been made
on our board.
Thirdly your last line quote’
The fact that you would not allow something like this to be published
on your facebook cause displays to me your level of dishonesty, you
want to hide the truth again, just like those Germans did way back in
the 1930′s”
Has stayed on the board and was not removed by myself or any other
admin members. I would also point out that the posts seem similar to
the ones a trouble maker has made and after banning him from the site
for outright provocative remarks to other members he tried getting back
on the site using other group members pictures from their pages and in
one case using another members wives name for another attempt to get
back.
Why didn’t you ask the people who are running the site for any reaction?
Regards
Tony Flatley
I think it’s a disgrace the way young people take things for granted these days. I watched the fuel Protest last Saturday and it was nothing but a bunch of rabble hanging around a car park smoking. I think I counted 6 adults and some children. To think of the cost of policing this sort of demonstration makes my blood boil. They don’t realise that the police have to lay on extra staff to ensure public safety and all of this costs the tax payer money and diverts the police away from doing more urgent work. I hate to think of how much crime may have been avoided last weekend if the Police had not had there time wasted by this tiny minority of trouble makers.
When I was there age we had national service and we did not demand our government do anything, we went to war for our country and sadly the current generation just want everything handed to them on a plate. Fuel discounts, who do they think will pay for that but the tax payer. The only people to benefit from reduced fuel tax are the unemployed scroungers that should be working.
I say that protest groups should be forced to pay for the policing instead of honest hard working tax payers and the article is right, if you want to protest tax you don’t do it outside a petrol plant.